Post by The Adjudicator on Oct 11, 2005 0:15:48 GMT -5
I am beginning to suspect that the following type of support from Berlin is illegal.
Austria
Army Vienna to Bohemia
Army Silesia support Army Vienna
Army Tyrolia to Munich
Germany
Army Bohemia Holds
Army Munich Supports Army Bohemia
Army Berlin Supports Army Munich
In the above example, an attack on Munich from Silesia/Tyrolia is just as likely as an attack on Bohemia from Vienna, so Germany tries to prevent either from succeeding by Supporting another Supporting unit in Munich from Berlin. Some of us do this a lot to 'back-up' our units in case our support gets cut and our unit gets dislodged, so we can at least prevent the dislodgment.
I think what Germany is doing in Berlin is actually illegal because, as a supporting unit, that is your action for the turn; Supporting. If you get attacked by a single, unsupported unit, then it's enough to stop that support in order to defend itself, but the order itself doesn't automatically change into a Hold order. (It becomes a simple 1:1 strength ratio rule at that point.)
I believe, if Unit A) has orders to do something Unit B) could not normally support (I.E. Unless it is Holding or Moving into a province Unit B) could itself move into), the order should be considered invalid and your supporting 'back-up' unit holds without supporting anything, even if the Supported unit suddenly has to try and hold off an attacking army.
Bottom line: Supporting a Supporting unit should be illegal.
Without this 'failed offensive reinforcement', the game will possibly become much more dynamic and may finish quicker. Regardless, we have been using it so far all game (probably because that's how I was taught to play before I read the rules - and this is a non-rule; it isn't covered anywhere in the book), and will continue to use it for the rest of the current game for the sake of consistencey, but I'd be interested in opinions on this. In the end, it will ultimately be Patton's decision how to run the next game anyway.
Discuss.
Austria
Army Vienna to Bohemia
Army Silesia support Army Vienna
Army Tyrolia to Munich
Germany
Army Bohemia Holds
Army Munich Supports Army Bohemia
Army Berlin Supports Army Munich
In the above example, an attack on Munich from Silesia/Tyrolia is just as likely as an attack on Bohemia from Vienna, so Germany tries to prevent either from succeeding by Supporting another Supporting unit in Munich from Berlin. Some of us do this a lot to 'back-up' our units in case our support gets cut and our unit gets dislodged, so we can at least prevent the dislodgment.
I think what Germany is doing in Berlin is actually illegal because, as a supporting unit, that is your action for the turn; Supporting. If you get attacked by a single, unsupported unit, then it's enough to stop that support in order to defend itself, but the order itself doesn't automatically change into a Hold order. (It becomes a simple 1:1 strength ratio rule at that point.)
I believe, if Unit A) has orders to do something Unit B) could not normally support (I.E. Unless it is Holding or Moving into a province Unit B) could itself move into), the order should be considered invalid and your supporting 'back-up' unit holds without supporting anything, even if the Supported unit suddenly has to try and hold off an attacking army.
Bottom line: Supporting a Supporting unit should be illegal.
Without this 'failed offensive reinforcement', the game will possibly become much more dynamic and may finish quicker. Regardless, we have been using it so far all game (probably because that's how I was taught to play before I read the rules - and this is a non-rule; it isn't covered anywhere in the book), and will continue to use it for the rest of the current game for the sake of consistencey, but I'd be interested in opinions on this. In the end, it will ultimately be Patton's decision how to run the next game anyway.
Discuss.
There's a perfect example right on Pg 7. Mutual support is very much legal, as is the 'Triangle of Love'. This may be a change from previous editions, but the posted 4th Edition rules pretty clearly state that a unit that is not moving may be supported by another unit that is Supporting, Holding or Convoying.